Elemental Training

I was just wondering about this topic, since my genin will hopefully be undergoing it soon. How do you train for each different element? Wind chakra is covered pretty well in the show and can be used as a broad example, but water, earth, lightning and fire chakra training are not explained (or not extensively covered).

How would one go about learning how to use each individual elemental chakra then? What would the teacher actually do to train them for using, for sake of argument, earth based techniques?

The Anime and the Manga do not cover learning how to use ones element, they only cover the combination of it into a specific jutsu and any development of elemental talent is directly related to that jutsu and thus can't be extended beyond it to assume thats how one typically learns how to manipulate their element(s). All they show is learning how to use Fuuton with Rasengan, thats not how you learn direct elemental manipulation, Rasengan is very clearly stated as being a spacial and not elemental manipulation, now if there were detailed guides to how Chidori was learned then that would be more relevant, as is what you're stating is inaccurate. We don't know how any of the elements are learned or mastered, Fuuton included.

Mmmm I've seen some kind of Chakra card system used on other forums. I believe an older version of SA incorporated that into the forum.

If your not familiar with the system; It's basically a card that gets damaged when you focus your chakra into it and the specific way it becomes damaged determines what chakra nature you have. e.g The paper/card became soaked you had Suiton, It reduced to ashes you have Katon etc etc.

So all in all, I suppose you just practice molding that chakra in a similar fashion? Idk /:

Chakra paper? Chakra paper just determines the nature that you have but it doesn't relate to the actual training of an element, it basically just tells you that you have the potential to use the element that the paper reacts with.

Kunshu wrote:

The Anime and the Manga do not cover learning how to use ones element, they only cover the combination of it into a specific jutsu and any development of elemental talent is directly related to that jutsu and thus can't be extended beyond it to assume thats how one typically learns how to manipulate their element(s). All they show is learning how to use Fuuton with Rasengan, thats not how you learn direct elemental manipulation, Rasengan is very clearly stated as being a spacial and not elemental manipulation, now if there were detailed guides to how Chidori was learned then that would be more relevant, as is what you're stating is inaccurate. We don't know how any of the elements are learned or mastered, Fuuton included.

That's not exactly true. The manga covered how to bring out elemental chakra, which is one of the foundations for elemental jutsu. To train your element you must be able to manipulate your chakra's innate ability to lean towards a certain element. To say that "all they show is learning how to use Fuuton with Rasengan" is inaccurate. Fuuton literally means wind element/style, and Naruto did not learn how to make wind chakra specifically for Rasengan. Learning how to control his element was not for a specific jutsu. He only combined it with Rasengan to make a more powerful technique. They taught him how to manipulate his wind element in general, he can use that knowledge for any technique. Rasengan was just a base to add his new chakra skills to.

Excuse me if I go over board, I like being thorough. *This will also answer Blue's question too, so it's not just a response to you Kushu, which it why it's so long*

From the first few bubbles we can see that Kakashi isn't focusing on Naruto learning to combine Fuuton with Rasengan in the first stages of training. His focus is to teach Naruto how to manipulate his chakra into wind. This is the basis for all elemental jutsu.








Then Yamato tells Naruto that to make full use of his chakra nature, that he must undergo Kakashi's training. This training, as Yamato implies was for him to be able to bring out and manipulate his chakra nature, not to use it specifically for Fuuton Rasengan/Shuriken.






So Naruto put on his try hard panties and tried to cut the leaf. He only got minor cuts, and if I remember correctly, like one clone out of the 1000 actually cut a pretty decent cut in it. This bothered Naruto that he couldn't understand how to use his wind nature chakra properly, so he needed help. If he were training Fuuton to apply it to a specific jutsu, then he wouldn't have asked Asuma in the first place, and Shikamaru wouldn't have noted that he was learning to control his chakra.






So after tricking Naruto, Asuma helps him by showing how to manipulate wind chara. Once more, if "The Anime and the Manga do not cover learning how to use ones element, they only cover the combination of it into a specific jutsu and any development of elemental talent is directly related to that jutsu and thus can't be extended beyond it to assume thats how one typically learns how to manipulate their element(s)." <-That was was true, then why would he ask Asuma? Asuma doesn't know how to combine wind chakra into Rasengan, and his elemental talent with wind chakra isn't directly related to Rasengan at all. If it was as you say, then Naruto wouldn't have been able to combine what he learned from Asuma into FRS, because Asuma is ignorant of Rasengan.






No one has been talking about any specific jutsu yet, and Asuma makes it clear that he's showing Naruto how to do it with his chakra.




Taking those skills, Naruto was able to integrate it into his training and succeed.




Then Kakashi clears my point. His last line imples that if he can't do anything else, he can at least learn other wind techniques, meaning he can use wind chakra/element jutsu in combat.




But what does this have to do for other elements? An explanation of other elements has already been posted on the site. Naruto went through Kakashi's "Leaf" Training method, you don't have to it like that, but it's pretty much the easiest way. Here's some information from the databooks which tell us about Nature Manipulation. *The Databooks are written by Kishimoto himself. Think of them as a manual to explain how the manga works* Nature Alteration Link

Specificities of the five great Nature Alterations

Fire
Flame-like high-temperature chakra that burns everything it touches to a crisp. It has the additional effect of setting the target aflame, and stands besides Wind as an offense-specialized style.

Wind
Blade-like chakra to behead, split and sever anything and anyone. Used with special ninja tools or in jutsu, it has the best offensive ability in close to medium range.

Lightning
Easy to diffuse, it has good compatibility with medium to long range jutsu. Infused into a metallic weapon, it adds harming and killing efficiency, as well as electrocution...!!

Earth
The Nature that alters everything in solidity and composition. If one masters it, it is possible to give jutsu or objects the resistance of steel and the flexibility of clay.

Water
A good compatibility with various Shape Alterations. Creating a mist to hide oneself, or a tidal wave for confinement, it is greatly beneficial for supporting purposes.

Now, if you take Kishimoto's writing and merge it with the manga you can get how to start elemental training. I'm going to use Kakashi's "Leaf" elemental training method to explain.

If Naruto had Lightning, he would hold the leaf in his hand and try to spread his chakra all over it. *Aka diffuse* The lightning would probably make the leaf crinkle. For Fire, he would try to spread his chakra to burn it, etc etc etc.


Also, we have to realize that Shape Alteration comes into play when you manipulate jutsu. The more you can manipulate shape alteration and nature alteration at the same time, the better jutsu you get. Some of Kakashi's "Leaf" training included "Spacial" or shape manipulation in it already. Here are examples of how they can be used to enhance techniques. Shape Manipulation

Lightning

Since diffuse or "discharge" means to spread out over an area, Kakashi's Chidori is dangerous! If you don't understand the concept behind shape manipulation being "discharge" then think of a power line. Kakashi's chakra is manipulated into lightning to supply the power for the technique. By discharging it, imagine if a power line was cut in half. The electricity would pop and crackle at the end of the wire, and if you touched it you would get shocked.



Fire

Sasuke's low level version of Goukakyuu contains no shape manipulation, jutsu raw nature alteration, because of this, the jutsu can only go one direction and is limited as it spreads out over the ground. However, if you add more shape manipulation to the jutsu, you get better results, which makes the technique more versatile. In Itachi's version, the shape manipulation is round, which allows the technique to move forward.





Wind

With no shape manipulation and raw nature alteration, Temari's wind summoning attack can cover a large area! It's great for enemies that are hidden and is the perfect counter to sound based ninjutsu. However, since it carries no shape manipulation, the attack would not be possible in a close quarters situation. Danzo, using shape manipulation makes the wind attack form into blade like projectiles which allow it to fly quickly through the air. Combined with the nature manipulation of wind, it can even cut through a superior defense as Sasuke's unfinished Susano'o.





Water

Kisame attacks with no shape manipulation at all, but with a tremendous amount of chakra coupled with raw talent in elemental manipulation, he creates an endless supply of water, the size of a vast lake with ease. With a supplementary elemental jutsu like this, Kisame gives himself the advantage of the terrain. Then, using the water he created, he uses shape manipulation to turn the water into a ball by way of Mizu Bunshin. Anyone trapped inside of a ball of water is left to suffocate unless they can disrupt the clone or user, or even the flow of chakra it self.




Earth

Without us even knowing the mechanics of the jutsu, we can understand how the Tsuchikage defeated it by just context clues from that chapter. Zetsu uses his spore technique which goes unnoticed by the Kages, and when activated, saps them for their chakra. Once the Tsuchikage realizes this, he manipulates his chakra into heavy stone, which causes the chakra sapping Zetsu to partially turn to stone and fall. Since the technique showcases elemental manipulation with no regard for shape manipulation at all, it's a good jutsu to defeat chakra sappers if you have the skill to pull it off. Also, by manipulating shape and earth at the same time, two skilled Rock Ninja are able to up root the underground and shape it into a volcano, forcing the earth to spew out thousands of Zetsu's who are at mercy to the Division's 2 vast variety of techniques.






So with this guide you should understand how to train to unlock your chakra's innate element, and even apply the concept of shape manipulation and nature manipulation to make jutsu. Make sure that you keep rank of technique in mind. Obviously, sometimes simpler shape manipulations and elemental manipulation can make the technique lower in rank. If you want a technique that is good and versatile in any type of situation, re-apply yourself to your character and think about what type of fighting style they have to asses how much shape or elemental manipulation is required.

As for training them and word count, wait until after christmas. More mods should be on to help you, but in the mean while, come up with some jutsu mentally, or improve in areas you already have skill in.

Thank you all for your comments, especially Shi! I feel I have a much better understanding of how to use and create elemental jutsu to greater effect thanks to that extensive explanation. b^_^d

I would like to ask one more thing however, just out of curiosity. The doton technique that Kakuzu uses (Earth Spear, which he uses to harden his skin, is a particular favourite jutsu of mine), that would be both Nature and Shape Alteration would it not? Nature to harden the skin using doton, and Shape Manipulation to form it around his limb or body?

In response to Shi, those are all very simple to address, that training is specifically for Rasengan, hence that type of training bears a very close resemblance to the training that was used for Rasengan, like the leaf which just seems to be a universal theme with the little yellow haired brat but that aside it features into both jutsu. Manipulating Fuuton can be done in more ways than that so learning to manipulate an element wouldn't be done in that fashion, that particular training was for cutting which is hardly all wind can do, and thus that training applied to Rasengan because thats what the wind was being added for, cutting power which would allow the creation of Rasenshuriken.

The reason Asuma was brought in was because thats also what he did best, cutting power via Fuuton, but he wasn't aware what Naruto even intended to do with it so his advice wasn't aimed directly at what he was doing. Thats not relevant to the subject though since if he had the advice likely would've ended up the same since thats what he ended up showing him anyways, cutting power, the specific thing Rasengan needed.

As we're aware Fuuton does more than that so how does learning how to cut allow you to do anything else the element does, like manipulate air currents or the like? While Kishi makes some pale attempts to cover up the gaps in the story through databooks he hasn't covered multiple things or has done so poorly, and in the case of most everything, fans know more than the creator about their own universe. Its a sad truth but the creator is narrow minded towards what they have to focus on, like plot, the mechanics of their world are in the background, fans can pick and choose and many choose to focus on mechanics since they don't have to churn out a storyline addition every week. Kishi is incompetent, which I can exhibit with one very clear example:

Head-Hunter. The jutsu is classified as D Rank according to those databooks, simple earth manipulation that lets you tunnel through it and then come back out right? Then why does another jutsu that only allows you to move through the earth have a HIGHER rank than the jutsu that moves through the earth and then encasses somebody else in it? The answer is that Kishi has other things to worry about and can't keep track of the things he writes or says concerning chakra or jutsu so he makes mistakes, every manga author does it, Bleach is full of errors like that too.

Describing the elements doesn't relate to their training either, and theres no explanation even offered as to how elemental chakra is related to chakra, are they the same thing in the body? If so, how could one manipulate more than one element? Are they different? If so, where does the elemental addition come from, how is it added, etc.? Its a lot more complex than appearances would let on but like I said, Kishi is busy with other things that aren't related to explaining all that.

The training that Naruto undergoes is for cutting with Fuuton which applies to Rasengan, I highly doubt Temari underwent the same kind of training for her own techniques since that doesn't apply to her techniques since there are other things she has to figure out first, like how to move the air around her with her chakra which has nothing to do with cutting. The leaf Naruto was cutting wasn't suspended in the air requiring him to move the air first, then that might be more applicable as a Fuuton training method since that covers the things the element does, air manipulation and cutting power, not just one of them.

If you'll notice, Naruto doesn't do anything else with his Fuuton element except modify Rasengan, likely because all he knows he is how to make things cut, he doesn't know how to manipulate the air like he would if he'd underwent actual training in his element. Or because he's a one trick pony, probably that one but the point still remains that until he shows the ability to do anything else it can be assumed he doesn't have the capacity to do so. He never uses Kamitachi or anything, then I'd be forced to admit error but as it is I stand by that he only learned to cut which is NOT Fuuton training.

You can cut with other elements, its more about focusing chakra into an edge, which can be done with other elements even if Fuuton is the element that specializes in that avenue. Kishi's writing about how they were doing elemental training doesn't match up with the element itself, Naruto didn't have to manipulate air currents, he just had to sharpen it, the element does far more than just that and while you do have to start somewhere you usually start off with all of the basics before you consider something 'learned.' You don't learn how to drive a car by only knowing how the gas pedal works, theres a lot more to it, yes you have a start and yes you could probably 'drive' but you don't have even the basics down to consider it learned. Though its a bit more complicated concerning Kishi, in the actual case its more like learning everything but how to parallel park, but you just kind of forget thats a part of driving and leave it alone assuming that it'll never come up. Doesn't work in the world of popular manga, if your plot hole is big enough to fit a toothpick in, somebody will tear it open.

Basically the point is that if you hand a man a knife and teach him to beat someone upside the head with it closed, he hasn't learned how to use a knife, he's ignoring the basic point of it having a sharp edge and specializing in what the man likely needed to know (for some reason.) In the same way Naruto was taught how to cut with Fuuton, nothing else, because thats all he needed to know to evolve his jutsu to its next level, he never learned how to control air currents (there was no instance in his training that mentioned it or implied it, it was 100% cutting, from the leaf to the waterfall) and the training was even similar to Rasengans in that the leaf was involved again (though as I said its likely just his theme.)

So no. Thats Rasengan training. Its even classified that way in Leafninja which is the Naruverse authority even when it conforms to guidebooks, when its left to its own devices it figures things out pretty accurately.

Blue-Eyed Devil wrote:

Thank you all for your comments, especially Shi! I feel I have a much better understanding of how to use and create elemental jutsu to greater effect thanks to that extensive explanation. b^_^d

I would like to ask one more thing however, just out of curiosity. The doton technique that Kakuzu uses (Earth Spear, which he uses to harden his skin, is a particular favourite jutsu of mine), that would be both Nature and Shape Alteration would it not? Nature to harden the skin using doton, and Shape Manipulation to form it around his limb or body?

Nope, Domu is a complete hardening of his own skin. It doesn't form around his body at all.

"Earth Release: Earth Spear* (土遁・土矛, Doton: Domu)
Ninjutsu, B-rank, Supplementary
User: Kakuzu

A body like diamond, repelling everything!!

With the chakra flowing through all parts of one's body, the skin is hardened, increasing its defence power to its utmost limits. Furthermore, the destructive power of human bullet attacks** is increased, making this a great all-purpose technique. The amount of techniques that can break through the areas hardened by the "Earth Spear" are close to zero, not including its undeniable weak point: "Lightning Release Ninjutsu".

[picture of Kakuzu's arm turning dark]
←With one hit of Kakuzu's hardened fist, the gates of the Temple of Fire are destroyed.

[picture of Kakuzu's face being cut by Raidou's sword]
↑By invoking this technique the instant an attack hits, one gains an immortal body.

*The names of Kakuzu's techniques don't make much sense at first sight. This is because Kishimoto took the names from the legendary mecha anime "Mobile Suit Gundam" (機動戦士ガンダム, Kidou Senshi Gandamu), slightly altered them in some cases, and thought of kanji for them. Domu comes from the MS-09 Dom (ドム).
**Attacks involving the use of one's own body as a direct weapon. E.g. punches."

Take it for it's understanding. Sometimes Kishimoto's exuberant can make the technique sound more than it is. Also, you might have to account for the sites definition of some techniques.

Ah, I see. I wasn't sure, but I wanted to make sure to see if I had it right.

So a doton technique with shape manipulation, would that be something like forming a sword from the earth, or making rock form over a fist?

Kunshu wrote:

In response to Shi, those are all very simple to address, that training is specifically for Rasengan, hence that type of training bears a very close resemblance to the training that was used for Rasengan, like the leaf which just seems to be a universal theme with the little yellow haired brat but that aside it features into both jutsu. Manipulating Fuuton can be done in more ways than that so learning to manipulate an element wouldn't be done in that fashion, that particular training was for cutting which is hardly all wind can do, and thus that training applied to Rasengan because thats what the wind was being added for, cutting power which would allow the creation of Rasenshuriken.

The wind element training does not resemble Rasengan's training at all. Rasengan focuses on rotation of chakra, then increasing the power of the chakra spinning, and then condensing it into a stabilized form. Here's a link.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=22979740&postcount=185

Remember we're talking in the context of the manga, and my replies will follow the rules of the manga, not any added outside logic. And exactly, manipulating Fuuton can be done in more ways than that. However, in the manga we don't know any other way. Asuma taught him what works best for him, which also works for Naruto. Chakra is a property of the spirit, and thus governs imagination. If you can think of any other way to sharpen your chakra besides that, then it's fine. That was just one example which works for Asuma and Naruto. However, you must remember that Kishimoto's logic behind wind is cutting power. Sure it can be manipulated for gusts and force *a strong wind pushing you back*, but in the context of manga, wind cuts, fire burns, earth crumbles and hardened etc etc. That's why Rasen Shuriken cuts, because wind chakra cuts in the manga. On the site, we can introduce outside logic, meaning we can make a wind jutsu which focuses on elemental manipulation in the form of gusts etc. Aka, being outside of its rules, allow us more uses since we aren't governed by the creators imagination, but only our own.

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The reason Asuma was brought in was because thats also what he did best, cutting power via Fuuton, but he wasn't aware what Naruto even intended to do with it so his advice wasn't aimed directly at what he was doing. Thats not relevant to the subject though since if he had the advice likely would've ended up the same since thats what he ended up showing him anyways, cutting power, the specific thing Rasengan needed.

Rasengan didn't need cutting power. Rasengan was a jutsu developed with the 4th's intention to add his element to it. If Naruto had fire or earth, it would have been a higher level Rasengan with those elements. Rasen Shuriken only cuts because Naruto happened to carry wind element. Besides cutting power, no other properties that exist in the real world of wind will really be added in the manga. No matter what type of wind, in the manga, it will always have some type of cutting ability.

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As we're aware Fuuton does more than that so how does learning how to cut allow you to do anything else the element does, like manipulate air currents or the like? While Kishi makes some pale attempts to cover up the gaps in the story through databooks he hasn't covered multiple things or has done so poorly, and in the case of most everything, fans know more than the creator about their own universe. Its a sad truth but the creator is narrow minded towards what they have to focus on, like plot, the mechanics of their world are in the background, fans can pick and choose and many choose to focus on mechanics since they don't have to churn out a storyline addition every week. Kishi is incompetent, which I can exhibit with one very clear example:

Again in the manga, Fuuton's specific ability is to cut. Kishimoto used Chinese and Japanese elements to form the basis for elemental power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_elements_(Japanese_philosophy)

Wind would be metal from Chinese and Void from Japanese is lightning.

Kishimoto has created a universe, which he governs as supreme god. He can limit add anything. This why I am always careful to say "in the context of the manga", because if you don't say that you can easily paint Kishimoto in a horrible light where his logic is terrible. Outside of it and on the site, things can do more than what Kishimoto has given us, for here, we only use Naruto has a foundation, building our unlimited imagination on top.

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Head-Hunter. The jutsu is classified as D Rank according to those databooks, simple earth manipulation that lets you tunnel through it and then come back out right? Then why does another jutsu that only allows you to move through the earth have a HIGHER rank than the jutsu that moves through the earth and then encasses somebody else in it? The answer is that Kishi has other things to worry about and can't keep track of the things he writes or says concerning chakra or jutsu so he makes mistakes, every manga author does it, Bleach is full of errors like that too.

In outside logic like here on the site, your logic is understandable. However, head hunter jutsu only allows you to go under ground and back up for limited use. On the site, you can't use head hunter jutsu to go underground unless you are switching with an object to trap. A higher jutsu would allow you go underground for any purpose, and travel as well. This is the difference between ranks, what the jutsu does and doesn't allow you to do.

However, in the context of the manga and by Kishimoto's rules, your logic is terribly flawed.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=23620417&postcount=398

The head hunter jutsu has a requirement of you already being underground first. "A ninjutsu where the caster, conceals themselves underground, drags the object of their attack down into the earth, robbing them of their freedom, in addition to which they can start to attack. Kakashi used it against Sasuke, who lay motionless where he'd been drawn into the ground, at which point this jutsu was originally used to for torture, by cutting into the enemy's neck."

Head Hunter's function in the manga describes the change of places.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-007/page011.html
Kakashi goes underground, no jutsu is named, but he is able to go under the earth.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-007/page012.html
Then Head Hunter is used when he is already underneath the earth, it does not allow him to go underneath the earth, it only works when he is under it by some other Doton technique.

Also, the mole hiding technique in the manga uses an ability of Doton which turns the surrouning earth into fine sand. To be able to break down earth into sand requires more skill that simply using chakra to trap an enemy with earth. This is why the technique is higher ranking. Though in your defense, that definition does not exist here on the site.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=22992789&postcount=264

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Describing the elements doesn't relate to their training either, and theres no explanation even offered as to how elemental chakra is related to chakra, are they the same thing in the body? If so, how could one manipulate more than one element? Are they different? If so, where does the elemental addition come from, how is it added, etc.? Its a lot more complex than appearances would let on but like I said, Kishi is busy with other things that aren't related to explaining all that.

By context of Yamato, elements are blood based. Naturally unless you have some sort of bloodline, your chakra will lean heavily towards one element. In the manga, through skill you can bring out other elements, more like "recessive" properties of chakra to use them. And I described them so other people could understand how Kishimoto labels the general function of elements.

Here on the site, we follow what Yamato said to a certain extent. We define elements sort of like genes. You have a "dominant" element and with skill at higher ranks, you can manipulate at least three elements.* Chuunin, then Jounin* Those other elements are "recessive", and using evidence from the manga, are harder to use, thus the cap on the rankings of techniques. With a normal character, on the site, all recessive elements must stop at B Rank to reflect difficulty due to their weakness within your body.

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The training that Naruto undergoes is for cutting with Fuuton which applies to Rasengan, I highly doubt Temari underwent the same kind of training for her own techniques since that doesn't apply to her techniques since there are other things she has to figure out first, like how to move the air around her with her chakra which has nothing to do with cutting. The leaf Naruto was cutting wasn't suspended in the air requiring him to move the air first, then that might be more applicable as a Fuuton training method since that covers the things the element does, air manipulation and cutting power, not just one of them.

In the manga, who says that Temari has to learn how to move the air? In the context of the manga your logic holds nothing, but on the site it means everything. Outside logic here on the site says wind manipulation is manipulating the existing air around you to power the technique*; if someone had Temari's jutsu. (*Or direct chakra manipulation, meaning turning your chakra into the element.* In the manga its a different story. Temari isn't limited by our rules, but Kishimoto's. In the manga, Temari does not manipulate the surrounding air, but only the air created by her fan. She manipulates the air currents she creates to make cutting vacuums of air, meaning she wouldn't be able to do it if she didn't have her fan. On the site, that wouldn't make sense at all, she should be able to do it as long as air exists.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=22952485&postcount=57

On here, the logic backing the technique is totally different, and would be more akin to the way you explain it.

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If you'll notice, Naruto doesn't do anything else with his Fuuton element except modify Rasengan, likely because all he knows he is how to make things cut, he doesn't know how to manipulate the air like he would if he'd underwent actual training in his element. Or because he's a one trick pony, probably that one but the point still remains that until he shows the ability to do anything else it can be assumed he doesn't have the capacity to do so. He never uses Kamitachi or anything, then I'd be forced to admit error but as it is I stand by that he only learned to cut which is NOT Fuuton training.

Again in the manga wind cuts. Outside of the manga, you can do anything that air can do. Naruto only modifies Rasengan because elemental manipulation was the intended purpose for Rasengan. There is nothing to stop Naruto from learning other wind jutsu besides Kishimoto's fetish for chakra balls.

Fuuton training is learning how to cut using wind chakra, but on the site, Fuuton training is to manipulate the properties of air, which may or may not involve cutting in the first place. I think you are mixing outside logic into the manga, something which Kishimoto doesn't necessarily do. Kishimoto didn't sit down and say, "well I want wind to cut, just because I want it to cut." He didn't think, "I want Fuuton to be air manipulated" Kishimoto is famous for using mythology in the manga, which is where the wind cutting thing comes from. It comes from the original Chinese element, metal, which cuts.

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You can cut with other elements, its more about focusing chakra into an edge, which can be done with other elements even if Fuuton is the element that specializes in that avenue. Kishi's writing about how they were doing elemental training doesn't match up with the element itself, Naruto didn't have to manipulate air currents, he just had to sharpen it, the element does far more than just that and while you do have to start somewhere you usually start off with all of the basics before you consider something 'learned.' You don't learn how to drive a car by only knowing how the gas pedal works, theres a lot more to it, yes you have a start and yes you could probably 'drive' but you don't have even the basics down to consider it learned. Though its a bit more complicated concerning Kishi, in the actual case its more like learning everything but how to parallel park, but you just kind of forget thats a part of driving and leave it alone assuming that it'll never come up. Doesn't work in the world of popular manga, if your plot hole is big enough to fit a toothpick in, somebody will tear it open.

Kishimoto is not that smart. Since he bases the manga's elements off of mythology, he limits himself to mythology, and therefore doesn't base elements off of what happens in the real world. Here, we base elements on what happens in the real world, not the Chinese and Japanese definitions.

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Basically the point is that if you hand a man a knife and teach him to beat someone upside the head with it closed, he hasn't learned how to use a knife, he's ignoring the basic point of it having a sharp edge and specializing in what the man likely needed to know (for some reason.) In the same way Naruto was taught how to cut with Fuuton, nothing else, because thats all he needed to know to evolve his jutsu to its next level, he never learned how to control air currents (there was no instance in his training that mentioned it or implied it, it was 100% cutting, from the leaf to the waterfall) and the training was even similar to Rasengans in that the leaf was involved again (though as I said its likely just his theme.)

I think you understand what I'm saying by now. In the manga, wind cuts, because of Kishimoto's basing off of Chinese/Japanese mythological understanding. If Naruto were on this site, then what you said would be totally correct. I used the manga to explain the manga, not the logic here on the site. If you take the manga logic and apply it to the site, you can come up with near anything. If you take the sites logic and apply it to the manga, it seems twisted and logically unsound, just how you have proven. We know elements can do way more that what Kishimoto gives us, but we limit ourselves just a bit. Why? Technically with skill you could pull the air from your opponent and suffocate them AND cut them to shreds at the same time. Such abilities are not allowable to stay true to the manga and to promote balance.

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So no. Thats Rasengan training. Its even classified that way in Leafninja which is the Naruverse authority even when it conforms to guidebooks, when its left to its own devices it figures things out pretty accurately.

Leaf ninja does not have Cannon descriptions. In the context of the manga, leaf ninja means nothing. The descriptions leaf ninja use twist the manga when you are talking about context. Leaf nin keeps the ranking information the same the most time, but not the description.
Here is the example.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=22992789&postcount=264
http://leafninja.com/ninjutsu-11.php#Moguragakure

Blue-Eyed Devil wrote:

Ah, I see. I wasn't sure, but I wanted to make sure to see if I had it right.

So a doton technique with shape manipulation, would that be something like forming a sword from the earth, or making rock form over a fist?

Exactly, though the rock manipulation over your fist would be easier (since your fist exists as a pre-existing shape* than a sword if the composition of rock (elemental manipulation) isn't super high.